[00:00:00] Josh: Hey Jess, what are you doing in four business days?
[00:00:02] Jess: Hey, Josh. Probably whatever you're about to ask me to do.
[00:00:05] Josh: Can you get on a flight to Boston?
[00:00:07] Jess: I probably can. I gotta check with Brandon and make sure like someone can take care of the kids and everything. Why?
[00:00:11] Josh: Um, we're just going to pivot the entire company.
[00:00:15] Jess: Hmm. Cool.
[00:00:22] Hey Josh. Remember when you called an emergency meeting and had the entire company fly to Boston? What was that about? Uh,
[00:00:30] Josh: uh, I remember it really well, uh, because it was a rough day. It was, remind me, was it the week before? Like, was it, did I give you two weeks notice or was it literally Oh
[00:00:39] Jess: no, it was like literally I think maybe five days.
[00:00:42] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I
[00:00:42] Josh: think I called John like on a Thursday and we had to be there like Tuesday. Tuesday, yeah. Um, yeah, I. I was starting to see trends in the company that we had some work to do on the path to, to product market fit. And there was, uh, someone actually [00:01:00] internally shared an article recently at Vector about like, do founders need to be like assholes to be like good CEOs or whatever.
[00:01:08] And there was, there was this one line in there that like, I maniacally agreed with. I, I didn't agree with all of it, but there was this one part about like. A good founder spends like so much of their time thinking about what's going to happen. Yeah. And running through like all the different, like enumerations, um, and often has thought like five steps ahead of where most people think the company is.
[00:01:28] And like, so I was having these, these almost like Premonitions of, Hmm. I think we're seeing trends that like, were not at product market fit specifically. What we were seeing at Vector was we were servicing too wide of an audience. Yeah. Like we were doing everything to everyone and. And we were seeing this in like how our customers were having or not having success with us.
[00:01:51] Yeah. And. Like a little bit more like Vector specific, but like at the time we had this insight that we were going to be like this [00:02:00] contact level everything platform. Yep. Right? Like who was on your website, who was showing intent, but we didn't have really strong opinions on what to use it for.
[00:02:08] Jess: Yeah.
[00:02:09] Josh: And so some of our customers were using it really well in marketing.
[00:02:12] Some of them were trying to use it for sales, and we were just spread way too thin. And frankly, they were just use cases that we weren't good at. Yeah. And, and I just felt like we needed to have this reckoning moment where like we all get together and accept that like, we've got a big problem to solve here.
[00:02:30] And so I called you and said, can you get on a plane and we should talk about some stuff and maybe pivot the entire company.
[00:02:36] Jess: And my heart was like, wait, what? What's happening? Um, because I've been at companies before where we've pivoted and it's really scary. Yeah. Uh, for everyone involved. Um, but I think when you called me, we were all starting to see Yeah.
[00:02:52] The same trends. Yeah. Um. I'll tell you the story where I felt it the most, but I'd love to know if there was [00:03:00] like a straw that broke the camel's back moment for you too.
[00:03:02] Josh: Yeah, yeah,
[00:03:03] Jess: please. Um, so where I saw it the most was, so our, um, our head of customer solutions ally. Yeah. Um. And her team were servicing all these use cases.
[00:03:15] Mm-hmm. And they were so stressed because it, you know, they couldn't, they didn't have a repeatable process like that. There's so much about scaling a business that's just around repeatable processes. Yeah. And they couldn't find a good groove.
[00:03:29] Josh: Yeah.
[00:03:30] Jess: Because they were trying to service every single use case.
[00:03:33] We were allowing people to. Tackle. Yeah. With Vector. Yeah. And, uh, a, you know, like you mentioned previously, like the. The ones that were using it for, like sales motions and outbound. Yeah. They weren't seeing great success. Mm-hmm. And it looked like Vector didn't work.
[00:03:51] Josh: Yeah. '
[00:03:51] Jess: cause of that.
[00:03:52] Josh: Yeah.
[00:03:53] Jess: And it was really frustrating for the customer success team.
[00:03:55] Josh: Yeah.
[00:03:56] Jess: They were trying to service all of these. Use cases.
[00:03:59] Josh: [00:04:00] Yeah.
[00:04:00] Jess: Um, there were some that were going great. Yeah. They were all on the marketing side. Yep. Uh, you know, a little spoiler alert there, but
[00:04:06] Josh: yeah.
[00:04:06] Jess: Everything on the kind of outbound and sales side was not going well and they were just spreading themselves so thin.
[00:04:11] Yeah. Trying to context switch
[00:04:12] Josh: Yeah.
[00:04:13] Jess: Between the different use cases and figuring out it all out at the size we are is really difficult. Yeah. That's where I saw it, but what was it for you that like, light bulb in your brain was like, we've gotta, we've gotta narrow this. Scope down, it was
[00:04:26] Josh: similar, right? I was seeing what Allie and her team were, were struggling with on our customer side.
[00:04:30] I was seeing on the product and engineering side, right when, when things would go wrong or we would have bugs, they were in just so many different places. Yeah. Where we weren't sure should we prioritize this issue or that one because we ourselves didn't have like a strong thesis on how you should get the most out of vector.
[00:04:46] And I think that one of the biggest struggles. Um, a lot of CEOs, particularly those that are the, the initial founders have is you fall in love with your thesis and your vision, right? Yeah. And. [00:05:00] It can be really hard to accept that, like, oh, we were wrong about something. Yeah. Um, now the good thing about Vector in particular is I think we're all like very, we're very motivated by like a, of course, building together, but it's like we're trying to to, to create something for our families.
[00:05:14] Yeah. And so there was no ego in sort of like, we were wrong. Like, we need to figure this out. And, and so for, for those that aren't as familiar with the company Right. We initially. Um, had this insight of like contact level platform, right? You would know who's on your website, you know who's showing intent, and we originally thought we were replacing like an A BM platform, like a six sensor demand base.
[00:05:34] What we realized was that when you have such specific information around the exact contact. The use case that revenue teams want to leverage that insight for switches from marketing to sales. Yeah. Right. They're like, oh, this person was on my website. I can't wait to email them. Or, this person was showing intent.
[00:05:51] I can't wait to cold call them. And the reality was is like a, the sort of signal based sales space is already really [00:06:00] saturated. Yeah. It wasn't one we wanted to be in. Um, two, I think we discovered that intent. Isn't what like all of us marketers thought it was, right? It means someone like read an article on a website about a topic you care about and like that's not ready for sales.
[00:06:16] Right? So the good news is like we were able to look at our customers that were seeing success with us, and it became really obvious that. They were focused on basically one use case. They were thinking of us in how to create contact level ad audiences and how to reveal people that they were spending dollars, uh, other ad budgets on.
[00:06:33] And so that was like the aha moment. Yeah. Where I knew like, this is actually good for us. We need to like niche down. We need to. Focused, we're already kind of doing the thing that people can get success with. Yeah. And I don't know if you remember, for a long time I kind of tried to avoid using the word pivot.
[00:06:49] Like when we were in that meeting, I was like, don't use that word. Yeah. Like it's not a pivot. We're already doing it. I think in a retrospect it was a pivot. Yeah. In the sense of like it affected [00:07:00] PI pivots of any nature affect more than a CEO thinks they do. Yeah. Right. And we'll get into a little bit like how this pivot affected marketing, but Yep.
[00:07:08] I think for most of us, like, well the product already does this thing. We're just gonna like talk about it slightly different. That's not a pivot, but it, it was a pivot.
[00:07:15] Jess: It absolutely was a pivot. I mean, we were stripping pieces of the product out so that we would no longer allow Yeah. These kind of sales use cases to happen inside of our product.
[00:07:25] We just knew they weren't working. Yeah. And we don't wanna set up our customers to not be successful. Um, and so yeah, I think when it starts to affect. All of the parts of the company. It's absolutely a pivot. Yeah. And, and it was doing that for sure. Yeah.
[00:07:39] Josh: Should we, should we walk through like what that meeting felt like and how it was structured?
[00:07:45] Because
[00:07:45] Jess: Yeah.
[00:07:46] Josh: There's some things that I think we did really well. There's some things I would've changed. Looking back at it. Yeah. The first thing that was interesting, so we got I think 95% of the company. Yes. I think there was like one or two people that just couldn't make it. Couldn't make it. Yeah. Um.[00:08:00]
[00:08:00] And, but we still remotely zoom them in. Yep. And include them on it. Um, and one of the things I think we did well was I. I was very, very specific about like, we're doing this. Like we're not here to debate whether we're doing this, like we're doing this and we are here to figure out like how we're gonna process through this and like what needs to be done.
[00:08:25] Jess: Yeah.
[00:08:25] Josh: And I think that that level of specificity, you tell me, I think the team appreciated it because it was, it was sort of like, alright, we're not going to get in the weeds about. Like how we feel about this or how much this is going to suck. It's just like this is the reality. But you tell me, was that like, was that the right structure for that meeting?
[00:08:44] Jess: Yeah, I think so. I think it was actually really helpful for everyone to know like, this is the direction the company is going. Yeah. That part is not part of the discussion here. Yeah. Like we have decided, leadership has decided, um, and I think we all kind of. [00:09:00] You gave us a couple minutes to be like, this is gonna be hard.
[00:09:03] Yeah. This is gonna be painful. Um, it is gonna suck for a little while. Yeah. Uh, there's gonna be parts of this nobody really likes. Yep. But when we come out of this, it's going to solve. So many of the major problems that we're seeing. Yeah. Um, in terms of just really feeling that, that market pull and getting to product market fit.
[00:09:24] Yeah. And things are gonna feel so much better once we get out of this, but the middle, the messy middle's gonna be pretty yucky. Yeah.
[00:09:31] Josh: I, I, I, I think so too. And I, one of the things when I started the meeting with the team is, you know, I walked through like, Hey, there's a lot of things we need to figure out here.
[00:09:38] Yeah. We don't. Have time to slow down and, and sort of get sidetracked or get into the weeds. Do you remember what I did to prevent us from getting into the weeds?
[00:09:47] Jess: Yes. You bought us all like the, like the easy button. Like the what, who, who, what was that from? Staples. Staples, yeah. The Staples Easy button.
[00:09:55] Yeah. But they were all programmed with. Other things [00:10:00] like mine was. Bye bye bye from nsync. What was yours?
[00:10:04] Josh: Um, I, I don't think I had one because I'm allowed to talk and not be interrupted. Uh,
[00:10:10] Jess: right. Oh, yes. Josh is king, so he, yeah.
[00:10:13] Josh: But no, I, I recorded them all like the night before my hotel room. They were all like, just different silly ways to remind people to like, stop talking.
[00:10:20] Yeah. Like one of them was like the, the like, are you sure about that? That's right. Me? Yes. Right. Yeah. Uh, yours was, bye bye bye. Um, there was one that was like just me talking, being like, wow, that's a great idea, but I think we should talk more about that later. Yeah. Just like these stupid little things.
[00:10:34] One of 'em
[00:10:34] Jess: was literally like, shut the fuck up, shut the fuck up. So they were all just like. It was just a fun way, like everyone got one. Yep. And it was just a fun way to be like, that's not what we're here to talk about right now.
[00:10:44] Josh: Yep. Anytime we got too deep or sidetracked and it just
[00:10:46] Jess: brought some levity, like it, it made us all laugh.
[00:10:48] 'cause it was, it was a deep conversation. We were there the entire day. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so I think you did a really good job of just like setting the tone. Thank you for the day.
[00:10:57] Josh: One of the things I regret, you and I were talking about this, I think maybe on [00:11:00] like my flight back or whatever is, um, I spent a lot of that morning.
[00:11:07] Trying to, uh, not debate that we were gonna make the change, but bringing people along on the logic of why we were making the change. Sure. And, um. One of my regrets is, is I get why I did that. I wanted people to approach the next phase, which was the problem solving from a place of understanding why we were doing it.
[00:11:28] But frankly, I do think that I spent two or three hours, right, trying to get people to, to understand this place we were in. And I do think that it, it created this environment where, um. Potentially I was, I was gathering feedback that I knew I wasn't gonna act on. Sure. And I remember talking to you about this after, I think we were just sort of like, Hey, how do you think that went?
[00:11:49] And what could we have done better? And, and you kind of helped me get to this point where I realized, and I think this is really applicable in marketing and creative stuff as well. Yeah. Which is like, if you're going to ask for [00:12:00] feedback. Be ready to use it. Right? Yeah. Be actually open to adopting it. Like don't ask for feedback, just to like oblige someone and feeling like they're part of a process.
[00:12:10] Jess: Totally. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:12:11] Josh: So we could have done that better, but ultimately, you know, everyone was on board. We, we kind of understood what we needed to do, but the thing that, um, kind of struck me is. It was a pivot. And when we were in that meeting is when it became obvious that it was gonna be a pivot Yeah.
[00:12:30] Because of how much fallout every department Yeah. Was going to get from it. Including marketing. Yeah. Walk me through like at some point we, we kind of, uh, we had all, everyone together and we said, Hey, this is where we're going. Um, this is what the company's gonna do. This is what the product's gonna focus on.
[00:12:43] And then we split into two departments. Yep. We split into like product and engineering, and then we split into go to market marketing, sales position, all that. Yeah. And that's where. You and your team started to like really break this out. Yeah. Tell me about that process.
[00:12:56] Jess: Yeah, and so this was very much just, um, I.[00:13:00]
[00:13:00] Kind of our first blush at what does this affect and how are we going to attack this problem? Yeah. And how long do we think this is gonna take us?
[00:13:11] Josh: Yeah.
[00:13:11] Jess: What do we know? What don't we know?
[00:13:13] Josh: Mm-hmm.
[00:13:14] Jess: What do we need answers to so we can continue to move forward? And Alex,
[00:13:20] Josh: mm-hmm.
[00:13:22] Jess: The product marketer that you are?
[00:13:24] Yes. Oh my gosh. I was so thankful to have her on our team. So, um, I think something that she has done in, in her career is kind of take the reins on big positioning, uh, projects like this. Yeah. Whether it's positioning or repositioning. Yeah. Um, and she like immediately raised her hand and was like, I wanna project manage this.
[00:13:45] Like, I wanna, not only do I wanna like do the bulk of the messaging work Yeah. But I wanna like be the project manager on it as well. And so she, that day, I mean like, she like whipped up like a, you know, spreadsheet of like started. A, a project plan of [00:14:00] like, here's what needs to get done. And it was admittedly rough day one.
[00:14:03] Right? Sure. Like, yeah. But it did help us. We still refer back to it and it was like, these are the, you know, these are the questions we need to ask to kind of know. Yeah. What is our take on all of this? What should our point of view on this be? Um, she actually brought up a really great point. I loved this so much about, um, actually, lemme go back a little bit.
[00:14:23] We, we brought one of our customers to this meeting. Yeah. We brought Isaac Ware from user GMs Yep. Uh, to this daylong kind of workshop. Mm-hmm. And he was so amazing to have there, just to bounce ideas off of someone who is a daily user of the product already.
[00:14:39] Josh: Yep.
[00:14:39] Jess: Is squarely in our ICP and is someone who is using the product in the way that we want everyone to use the product.
[00:14:46] Josh: Yep.
[00:14:46] Jess: And uh, so it was really great just to hear his thoughts on like, you know, demand gen marketers motivations and what gets them excited and, you know, really just affirmed for us that like this was the right move. [00:15:00] Here's the problem with Isaac.
[00:15:02] Josh: Yeah.
[00:15:02] Jess: He's one of the best demand gen marketers out there.
[00:15:05] Josh: Yes.
[00:15:05] Jess: Yes. And something Alex helped us realize was he is an A plus marketer.
[00:15:10] Josh: Yep.
[00:15:10] Jess: And we have to remember, not everyone is an A plus marketer.
[00:15:14] Josh: Yeah.
[00:15:14] Jess: And we really have to make sure that like this story, we tell this new narrative, this new positioning.
[00:15:19] Josh: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:20] Jess: Applies to all marketers. Yeah. Um, you know, Isaac is using us in some incredibly sophisticated ways.
[00:15:27] Yeah. Like we ourselves are, are not using it in that way. Um, because he just, you know, he just really knows how to. Dig up these signals and bring them into vector and all of that. And we, we haven't gotten there yet. Right? Yeah. Like we are not at a point in our company's journey where I even have a demand gen marketer in house.
[00:15:46] So, yeah. Um, yeah, it was a really good reminder that like this needs to be a pretty universal Yeah. Story as well.
[00:15:53] Josh: Well, it was cool because like having a customer there and a power user meant we were able to shorten that feedback cycle too. [00:16:00] Yes. Instantaneous, right? Yeah. We would say, Hey, I think we should be doing X, or I think we should position it y and immediately have someone say like, oh, no, no, no, like there's this other competitor that's doing it this way and they didn't do a good job.
[00:16:11] And like, it just, it, it, it probably made us get more out of that meeting that day than we could have like in a month of like user research.
[00:16:18] Jess: 100%.
[00:16:19] Josh: To your point, I, I thought it was actually Alex that brought up this like. A plus marketer thing of saying like, Hey, as a PMM, I've worked with marketers before, and I think a, uh, uh, Isaac falls in this bucket.
[00:16:30] Right? And we need to be conscientious of like, where do, do we position for folks like him? Right? Do we position for, for folks that are, um, maybe. You know, not doing the most sophisticated things with their advertising. Um, and so it was really, really, really cool to, to see that. But to your point, obviously I'd worked with Alex for several months at that point, but, you know, we hadn't crossed paths in the business until this moment.
[00:16:53] Jess: Yeah,
[00:16:54] Josh: I never knew. I mean, it's, I think this is mostly Alex, but I also think it's a, it's a PMM [00:17:00] thing. The organization, the project management, like she didn't just take the positioning part of the work? No. Like she took the whole thing, the whole project from the product, like the the product management side of things, all the way through marketing and sales and enablement, which is just.
[00:17:16] Insane.
[00:17:17] Jess: Yeah. An incredible amount of work. And she's done a masterful Yeah. Job. And like we are still in this project. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, she's, she's still like at it. Okay. So just to like put a bow on this Boston meeting, right? Yeah. Um, we did, we went off kind of in these two groups. Um. The GTM team kind of put this plan together.
[00:17:36] The product team did the same thing. Yeah. So, uh, product and engineering, they sat together and they kind of figured out like, here's what needs to happen with the actual product itself in order to get to this new true north. Yeah. And so when we left there, um, we had a really solid, like first draft of a plan of what we needed to do.
[00:17:55] And we knew it was gonna be months long, like probably at least a [00:18:00] quarter long. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. Don't you think?
[00:18:01] Josh: Yeah.
[00:18:02] Jess: Um, and so we came back and the, the first week we got back was like, put your heads down, figure out, uh, the actual plan that is gonna get us there. Yep. And we spent Monday through Thursday doing that, and Friday we were presenting to everyone like that, how we're actually gonna get there.
[00:18:21] Josh: Yeah.
[00:18:22] Jess: Um, it was, I don't know, on both sides of the company. Yeah. Like the most masterful, just like. Let's all sit down and figure out a plan and like come together and make sure it makes sense. Yeah. Um, it was amazing.
[00:18:36] Josh: It was a really special moment for me because it was the first time where I felt like I.
[00:18:43] The, the reigns weren't in my hand anymore. Mm. Right. And, and every department leader and every employee just kind of knew their role. Yeah. And I thought what was really interesting about the, the presentation or like the project that you all presented back to me, 'cause I basically said, here's what, here's [00:19:00] where we need to go.
[00:19:01] Go make it happen and come back to me and tell me how you're gonna get it done. The first thing that was in all of your guys' plans was basically the hard stuff first. Your your first recommendation was like, we need to stop the bleeding. Like, we need to stop being known for this particular use case. We need to have the product not support the things we Right.
[00:19:18] And it, it was, I've never seen a team like. Take the bull by the horns, like faster. Yeah. Right. And I think within like a week, like, you know, for, for anyone out there listening, like these don't have to be year long revamps, right? Yeah. I think within like two weeks we had like removed, we hadn't added anything new.
[00:19:36] We hadn't repositioned, but we had. Pulled away all the parts of our product and our company that would like allow people to use us the wrong way.
[00:19:42] Jess: Yeah. It
[00:19:43] Josh: was fast. It
[00:19:43] Jess: was so fast. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think on the marketing side, like we had to start figuring out what do we need to do to get to the right new messaging.
[00:19:53] Yeah. Um, and so the first couple of things we did was, uh, we, we did a survey. Mm-hmm. [00:20:00] Alex put together this wonderful survey that we put in front of. 80 plus. Uh, well, we put in front of a lot, many demand gen marketers, but 80 plus actually responded. Yeah. Um, we got some really interesting information out of that, just around, um, the types of signals they're using.
[00:20:15] What are their biggest fears? Mm-hmm. Um, what do they think about? Budget, all of those things. And when we got some really interesting stats back from that.
[00:20:25] Josh: And you created content Yeah. Out of something that wasn't supposed to be content. Right. Which is just like the most out of the box thinking. Right? So, so to clarify your goal, yourself and Alex was to survey the market and we used what winter to, or no, you actually sent this one out.
[00:20:41] Right? That one was
[00:20:42] Jess: just like a Typeform survey. Yeah. Right. You
[00:20:45] Josh: just, you posted, hey, we're going through this thing, we want some advice. Right. And it was too. Help us figure out how to position the company. Yep. But you turned it into like months worth of like, I think you did events around Oh yeah. The results of the survey.
[00:20:58] Heck
[00:20:58] Jess: yeah. Uh, I'm a [00:21:00] content marketer, man. I'm not gonna let survey results go to waste
[00:21:03] Josh: content opportunity hack now.
[00:21:04] Jess: Yeah. When I got that, those results back and Alex synthesize them, it was like. Oh, there, this is really good. Yeah. Um, like we could put a mini report together on this. We did a webinar. Yeah.
[00:21:16] Uh, with Isaac actually. Yeah. And walk through kind of some of the pain points and the, the major findings. Um, we used it as social content. We built some playbooks around it. So Yeah. Like that did not go to waste at all. Yeah. Um, so that was kinda the first step. The, the second thing and the thing that really, Alex spent the majority of the rest of her time on.
[00:21:37] Yeah.
[00:21:38] Josh: It
[00:21:38] Jess: was pricing and packaging. Yeah. Um, that was a huge undertaking. Yeah. Um, that again like. We had to kind of transform how we were actually selling the product. Actually, I love this. I'm gonna bring this April Dunford, uh, I, she was at, uh, exit five Drive in September. Yeah. And she did a talk about positioning, obviously.[00:22:00]
[00:22:00] And um, the quote that I like wrote down, it's in my phone from her, was, no one gives a shit about positioning until it affects. Sales
[00:22:09] Josh: classic.
[00:22:10] Jess: So like It's so true.
[00:22:12] Josh: It is. Yeah.
[00:22:12] Jess: And so I think, um, the other thing, the other quote that I wrote down from her was, uh, you reposition when big things happen. Mm. And I think those two together were exactly what was happening with us.
[00:22:24] Yeah. Was like. We were kind of seeing in sales again, kind of like bouncing around to different use cases. Yep. Um, we couldn't quite figure out who, you know, who was a good ICP fit, which demo requests should be we be getting really excited about. Yeah. Because sometimes big great logos would come in, but they'd be as.
[00:22:41] Sales use case and we were like, I don't know. Is it gonna work out? Yeah. Right. And so it it was affecting sales. Yeah. And so that, I think that was when everyone was like, blah, we gotta, yeah. We gotta do something. And so we had to take the pricing and the packaging of these things Yeah. And really figure out how to rearrange them in a way, one that made sense for [00:23:00] the new story we were going to tell.
[00:23:01] Yep. Two that had a really, uh, solid flow of like an upgrade Yeah. Motion, right. And three that like sales felt really good about, like, I can sell this.
[00:23:13] Josh: And this was like a masterclass for me to watch. Like, I, I didn't real, like obviously when our early stages, you just pick a price tag and you just, if people pay for it, right?
[00:23:21] Yeah. And so we had never really put thought into how we priced, how we packaged like any of that. And. It, it was almost like watching Alex do a dance between like all of these different levers, right? How's the, how's the packaging going to inform the perception of the story? How's the pricing going to allow most of our customers to see value?
[00:23:44] The thing that was really, really cool that she achieved in our pricing, which, um, I don't know, maybe by the time Yeah, by the time this one goes live, it'll be live. So you can go on our website and see it is. We weren't doing a good job of capturing value across all the different [00:24:00] sizes of companies that we were providing value to.
[00:24:02] Yeah. And what I mean by that is like before we basically had two plans. There was two prices for it. Yeah. And so we would have a small customer come and they'd be like, Hey, this is a little bit too expensive for me for, you know, the amount of advertising we're running. Or we'd have these really big customers that are just like.
[00:24:17] What? That's it. Like we run a million or $10 billion worth of advertising. And so she helped us build the story between the, the packages and why you would use one versus the other. But then she also made it so that whatever that unit of value for that plan was the customer. Like the thing that drove value for them was the thing they paid money on.
[00:24:37] Yes. Which was really, really cool. Yeah,
[00:24:39] Jess: it was so smart. Well, she was doing all of that. Uh, we also had kind of this idea of like the actual narrative and the new, uh, marketing positioning. Yeah. We had to figure out, so before we were kind of hailing ourselves as a contact based marketing platform, um, kind of playing off of, or pivoting, um, what am I trying to say?
[00:24:59] Kind of [00:25:00] piggybacking off of the idea of account based marketing and taking it a level deeper. But what we realized was like that. Also had, um, account based marketing also really has ties to sales. Yeah. And so like, it was actually doing us a disservice to talk about ourselves in that way. Yeah. It made people think that there could be some sort of, uh, sales motion tie in when that was not what we really wanted people to use the product for.
[00:25:26] Yeah. And so we had to figure out like, what do we say about ourselves that is still really compelling. Yep. Still delivers in our messaging the value of the product, which is, it's at the contact level. Like Yep. There's, there are not many tools that can do that. Yep. Um, and three would still serve a big enough audience where we, you know, can actually like, scale this company and grow.
[00:25:49] Yeah. And so, uh, we, we did a lot of just kind of like, based off that survey information, a lot of internal kind of. Positioning and me messaging work [00:26:00] around where we thought we wanted to go.
[00:26:01] Josh: Yep.
[00:26:02] Jess: Uh, we got down like a ton of like do's and don'ts. Mm. Like messaging, do's and don'ts, things we definitely wanna stay.
[00:26:09] And then like some, some words that you have to be really careful about saying or maybe don't say at all. Intent being one of those words. Mm-hmm. Because, uh, it means so many things to so many different people. Um, it. Can kind of over promise and that's not what we're in the business of doing. So we did a lot of that internal, internal work first.
[00:26:28] And then we actually had the opportunity to work with Fletch.
[00:26:31] Josh: Yeah.
[00:26:31] Jess: Uh, Anthony Pieri and Robert Kaminsky to do a homepage repositioning project. Yeah. And so this was kind of like the culmination for marketing, um, in terms of. Getting to a point where we're like, we're gonna get real clear Yeah. On what we do, who we do it for, and how we talk about it.
[00:26:50] Josh: What was that process like? I only know parts of it for reasons that you'll soon explain.
[00:26:56] Jess: It was, listen. Look, if [00:27:00] you're gonna do a positioning project with Fletch one, do it. Yeah. Uh, they're masters at what they do. Yeah. Two, prepare yourself. Mm. Uh, Alex and I would always slack after the meetings, but essentially the process is like.
[00:27:14] You sit down with them, you, you send this them all of this input beforehand first. And that was part of it. Like we had to do some work ourselves to actually understand how best to give them input. Yeah. So we would get the right results back.
[00:27:26] Josh: Yep.
[00:27:27] Jess: Um, so that's a lot of the upfront work on our end where that went.
[00:27:31] In
[00:27:31] Josh: every PMM or people that do positioning strategy, they have different thesis. Right. Like the way April Dunford versus Anthony, they all have different ways of approaching. Yeah. Uh, and I, I think. Anthony's and Fletch's in particular is to like really get to the root of what you do. Yes. Like what does your product do?
[00:27:50] Yes. Um, and I think. For creatives, visionaries, founders. This can be really difficult. It's hard. Yeah, because like I, I [00:28:00] used to subscribe to some of the larger stuff, which there's a change in the world and Yeah. And you don't know it yet, but there's this category that's being introduced and Anthony's very much, but just like.
[00:28:09] What do you do?
[00:28:10] Jess: Yeah.
[00:28:10] Josh: That's hard.
[00:28:11] Jess: And, and that the, your affinity for that is because you're a founder and you have to pitch to investors. Yes. And investors have to see the long-term vision. Yes. Yes. Of what you're building. Yes. The disruption that you're creating in the market. I
[00:28:23] Josh: was telling you, a couple weeks after we went through this process, I had the opportunity to chat with Brian Halligan, who was the CEO or previous CEO and co-founder of HubSpot.
[00:28:30] And you know, obviously one of the first questions I get asked is like, Hey, Josh, what are you, what are you building? Right? Yeah. And I was like. I won't, I won't tell say the sentence yet, because in a, in a while you'll talk about like where we ended up with the positioning, but I was very tactical in my response.
[00:28:43] I said, vector does X, right? Yeah. And, and it took me like saying this like three or four times to him to finally come around to like what it was we're building. And I asked him, I was like, Brian, is there a way I could have said this that would've like, landed better for you? And he's like, oh, I would've said that vector's changing the way B2B adverti, uh, B2B marketers do [00:29:00] advertising.
[00:29:00] And I was like. Ah, yeah. The story that you have to tell a VC and an investor mm-hmm. And a as a founder, is entirely different than what the messaging on the website should tell your users. And that was really difficult for me during that process. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:29:14] Jess: So what did you, well, here, let me explain what the process was and then we'll explain like where you.
[00:29:19] What your role was. Yeah. Um, so Fletch, their processes, two week sprint.
[00:29:24] Josh: Yep.
[00:29:24] Jess: Two week sprint. And at the end of that two weeks, you have a wire frame of your homepage with your new positioning on it. Yeah. Um, and it's a, it's a fantastic process. The first meeting is like a big workshop where you're like figuring out like what it is we do, and not the exact way you wanna say it on the website, but just like in plain English, what do we do?
[00:29:45] Who do we do it for? Yeah. Uh, what's kind of the enemy Yeah. Um, and why we're different from them, and then what are the steps that actually occur Yeah. To make this thing happen. Yeah. That was the first session and it was. [00:30:00] A lot.
[00:30:00] Josh: It is brutal. We're like slacking
[00:30:02] Jess: each other. Like, I'm fighting for my life over here.
[00:30:04] Right.
[00:30:05] Josh: Yeah. Because,
[00:30:05] Jess: uh, Anthony's really good in Figma and he'll like zoom around different spots. Yeah. And I'm like getting, get big vertigo. Like vertigo. Yeah. Like trying to follow him. Right. Yeah. Uh, and his brain is quick. He moves really fast. He's done this, you know, 400 times. Yeah. Um, and so he moves like quickly and we're just trying to keep up.
[00:30:23] Yeah. But how did you feel after that first session?
[00:30:25] Josh: Uh, horrible, horrible. Um, I, I felt like I was the squeaky wheel in the session, right? There was, there was a lot of like me interrupting and saying like, well, I don't think you understand, like, we do more than that. Or, or, you know, like, the problem we're really solving is, is revenue, right?
[00:30:42] Yeah. Or, or, um, you know, there's $10 billion in ad spend that's wasted in B2B, right? And I, I, this is just the way my brain was trained to, to go and I remember. Very explicitly. I was in Vegas at the time, I was out of office, but I wanted to be part of this, this exercise, which was probably mistake number [00:31:00] one.
[00:31:00] And so I was sitting in the hotel room, my like wife is sitting on like the bed next to me and I'm like, dialed into this meeting and it's just this like frustrating meeting of me trying to like have these high level thoughts and, and Anthony doing his job and you doing your job and kind of keeping me grounded and.
[00:31:16] I closed the laptop and, um, I think Jenna, my wife and I, we like, we walked like the strip of Vegas and I was, I was talking to her about this like frustration I was having of just like, I just, I don't want the messaging to land flat and I don't want to get like, put in this, like this silo or this bucket of like, vector only does targeting when in reality we actually do, you know, contact level de anonymization of who's clicking on your, your ads.
[00:31:38] We're gonna do like ad spend optimization soon. We're gonna do so much more. Yeah. And, and it was Jenna that. That kind of like leveled with me and she's like, I think you're too close to this problem. Right? Yeah. She's like, I don't, I I think you're gonna create more pain in getting Jess where she needs to to be than you are going to be helping her.
[00:31:56] Yeah. And um, at this point we had, like, this was a long [00:32:00] conversation. We had walked to the entire strip from one end to the other, and we were at like the mall that's on like the one end. And Jenna was shopping and I sat down on a bench and I, I slacked you and Alex, and I said like, I'm, I'm gonna remove myself from this process.
[00:32:11] Yeah. I, I don't think I'm helping here. What, were you surprised by that? Like what was your reaction when you saw that message from me?
[00:32:17] Jess: I was, no, I wasn't surprised. I, I could tell it was a hard meeting. It was really hard. I actually think the, the like illustrative example
[00:32:28] Josh: Yeah.
[00:32:29] Jess: That we kind of brought up in that call was, Hey, I don't think anyone would.
[00:32:36] Argue that gong allows them to grow revenue.
[00:32:41] Josh: Yeah.
[00:32:41] Jess: Like if you really like take it step by step and kind of figure out like how you get deep insights or see how your sales team is performing. Yeah. Gong is a big part of that. Yeah. No one who is looking to grow revenue instantly thinks I need call recording [00:33:00] software.
[00:33:00] Yeah, yeah. There's just, there's so much in between those two dots. Yeah. And I think that was where you were trying to get to this dot. Yeah. And we were trying to figure out this dot. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And for our listeners not watching, I have dots two, two, my fingers are the dots. And they're two very far apart dots.
[00:33:15] Yeah,
[00:33:15] Josh: they're, they're about 18, 19 inches apart. Yeah. Somewhere there. Oh. It's made a little bit bigger. That's about 20, 21 inches or so.
[00:33:21] Jess: It's like the bass that, you know, you, your dad catches, it just gets bigger every time. It just gets
[00:33:25] Josh: bigger
[00:33:26] Jess: every time you tell the story. Kind
[00:33:27] Josh: of 15 inch bass got a three foot bass.
[00:33:29] Yeah.
[00:33:30] Jess: The biggest bass in the lake. Yeah. So, yeah, it, it was hard. And uh, I think Anthony did a really good job of like, Hey, you wanna be known for like a word or a phrase? Yeah. Um, Devin Reed says this too about like personal brand. Yeah. You as a personal brand, as a, as a person, as a thought leader. You wanna be known for a single thing.
[00:33:49] Josh: Yeah.
[00:33:50] Jess: And when people think of you, they, they immediately associate you with that. Yeah. And so that's what we were looking for. Yeah. Was that single? Yeah. By the way, single thing. Mine friend Devon
[00:33:56] Josh: is like, the word that comes to mind is like, cool. He's just so fucking cool. He's just,
[00:33:59] Jess: yeah. Like, [00:34:00] yeah.
[00:34:00] Josh: I met him on that boat trip at Exit five, and I'm just like, man, the tattoos, you're in shape.
[00:34:04] You're tall. I know the hair. I'm like, I know. I just, just wanna be you.
[00:34:07] Jess: He's just the coolest. Yeah. Devon Reid the coolest. That's his one word
[00:34:12] Josh: that his, yeah, that's one word. The coolest. He's so, he's so cool. His one word is two words. Two words.
[00:34:17] Jess: Damn.
[00:34:19] Josh: Dear marketer, you're so cool. Your one word is two words.
[00:34:23] Jess: That's his osi. We have a positive affirmation just for everything for him.
[00:34:26] Josh: Yeah.
[00:34:27] Jess: So, yeah, that was a hard, that's a hard process. And that was day one. Yeah. Like you guys we're still on day one. Yeah. So, yeah, I think your actual slack to me was, I need to give away my Legos. Yeah. So I wasn't surprised 'cause I could sense your frustration.
[00:34:39] I was actually really proud. Like I think that takes a, that takes. So much like self-awareness, um, and empathy and like, man, what leadership. To just be like, I'm gonna, the, these two have it and I'm going to, I'm just gonna remove myself and they can take this. Thank you. Uh, yeah, absolutely. That's your wonderful [00:35:00] reality.
[00:35:00] I just wanna
[00:35:00] Josh: get drunk in Vegas. I was like, I don't wanna deal with this anymore.
[00:35:02] Jess: Yeah. We're the margaritas. Y'all
[00:35:05] Josh: got this. Alright, keep going. Okay, so we're going through this pivot. You're figuring out the messaging. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:35:10] Jess: So we're in the middle of this. Sprint with Fletch. Yeah. Two weeks long. Um, so over the, the remaining two weeks, the first week is really around positioning.
[00:35:17] Yep. Really figuring out like what we want to say about ourselves. Second week is all about copywriting. Yeah. So they bring in their copy team, they actually write what's on the page, and, uh, we're going back and forth with feedback and we get to a, a great place. We're feeling like so good about where we are except for the H one.
[00:35:35] Mm-hmm. Um. That is obviously like it's the front door. It is the, it is the first impression anyone has. Yep. It is the most important three seconds your business will ever deliver. Yep. And we got to kind of like the, the. May like the very clear version Yeah. Of what we wanted to say, but it didn't feel like our brand.
[00:35:59] Yeah. [00:36:00] And so the next step was one, we brought the, the, uh, we moved into design. We're now designing a new website. Mm-hmm. Another episode coming up. Um, uh, but we needed to get that H one just right because like that is, you know, if you have to boil your positioning down to any one thing, it's like the H one on the homepage.
[00:36:18] Josh: Yeah.
[00:36:19] Jess: And so, um. The one thing we realized we wanted to be known for at this point in the company's journey is. Building ad audiences. Yep. That is what all of our top customers were doing. Uh, when I say top customers, our highest performing seeing the most success. Yep. It is. Um, the thing that's different about us, we get to do it in a little bit different way.
[00:36:42] Yeah. And it gave us an enemy. So the enemy is native targeting, which is a total black box. Love that. You don't get to pick who's in it. Yep. With Vector, you actually get to decide who's in your ad audience. And you they, those people see your ads. Yeah. And that was really exciting. So where we ended up with the H one.
[00:36:57] Yep. Very exciting. Is [00:37:00] build, sorry, where we ended up with the H one. Very exciting is the only way to build ad audiences by name. I love that. And I think it captures like the one thing we do. Yep. That we're unique. Mm-hmm. Because we say it's the only way.
[00:37:13] Josh: Yep.
[00:37:13] Jess: And that, um, sorry, hold on. I think what it captures is, uh, it gets that one thing we wanna be known for in there.
[00:37:23] Yep. It shows you that we're unique. Mm-hmm. And it feels like our brand. Yeah. Like it just felt like, yeah. Ooh, that's an interesting spin. Tell me more. Yeah. And that is what you need that H one to do.
[00:37:33] Josh: Yep.
[00:37:34] Jess: H one does not need to sell. H one does not need to sell. H one needs to get someone to want to read the next one.
[00:37:40] Yeah.
[00:37:40] Josh: And that is ultimately so, so for anyone else that feels they have to like, remove themselves from a process and then come back into it. You eventually, you asked me along the way, do you wanna see it? Do you wanna see it? And I was like, Nope. Just show, show me at the end. 'cause I'm just, I'm not gonna be helpful here.
[00:37:53] So I, I think it was last week. Yeah. Last week you finally said, Hey, I wanna show you where we landed. And what [00:38:00] was so cool is like. Do do. I love that. The H one doesn't explain everything that we do and of course not. It's really hard still to, to swallow. But the H one is enticing. It's the core thing we wanna be known for, right?
[00:38:12] Anthony said it well, Stripe is known for payments, even though they do 20 other products now. Yep. And then. You were able to help me see like the North Star, because now you had a website where I could like scroll down it and be like, oh, and here's the other things that we do. Yeah. Here's how those all tie together.
[00:38:27] And so yeah, I, I'm really glad I removed myself from the process because you guys ultimately got to such a great place that I would've, I would've prevented you all from getting to if I was part of it.
[00:38:37] Jess: No shit. No shit.
[00:38:43] Josh: Good idiot.
[00:38:46] Jess: No, it worked out the way it was supposed to. Like, I think we we're in a really, really great spot.
[00:38:51] Yeah. We're, we're still a couple weeks from launch. We're getting really close. Yeah, but I think it, again, like. It, it was a huge undertaking. Uh, so that meeting in Boston [00:39:00] was in July?
[00:39:01] Josh: Yeah,
[00:39:01] Jess: we're here in October. We still have another couple of launch, uh, weeks until launch. So we're launching, you know, mid to late October.
[00:39:08] And yeah, that was a, it was a long, painful period and there was so much that happened in between all that you had to like call every single customer, paying customer and basically tell them the new direction we were going and kind of see how they felt about that. Resoundingly, they were all very excited about it.
[00:39:24] But like that, these are things you don't even think about when you're like, we need to make this change. And
[00:39:28] Josh: that's when I knew, like going back to like kind of where we started. Yeah. Like that's when I realized like it was a pivot, right? The, the fact that Allie, our head of solutions, you know, had to throw, you know, hundreds of calls on my calendar to talk to every single customer about what we were doing.
[00:39:42] Right. The fact that you had to rebuild the website, rebuild the pricing, rebuild the positioning, right. Uh, you know, Andrew and his team work really hard to, to build a bunch of new functionality, take out a bunch of old, like it was a pivot, even if it was just, you know, 10 degrees further to the right of where we were before.
[00:39:56] Jess: Hey, Josh, do you know what time it is?
[00:39:58] Josh: What time is it?
[00:39:59] Jess: [00:40:00] It's that time where we look into the camera and we deliver positive affirmation for marketers, because let's face it, we need it.
[00:40:08] Josh: They need it. Let's give it.
[00:40:10] Jess: Let's do it.
[00:40:11] Josh: Dear marketer, you understand customer pain points so deeply. They schedule therapy sessions, just a process being solved by you.
[00:40:19] Jess: We all need therapy.
[00:40:20] Josh: Yeah. Just lay even
[00:40:21] Jess: customer pain points.
[00:40:22] Josh: Just lay out on a couch. Talk about it.
[00:40:24] Jess: Yeah. Deep, deep. Seated. It
[00:40:28] Josh: was my parents.
[00:40:31] Jess: Dear marketer, when you run LinkedIn ads, organic reach gets jealous and just tries harder.
[00:40:38] Josh: Mm-hmm. Organic reach, trying to get its revenge body on. Just trying to, trying to get that guy back.
[00:40:46] I don't, I didn't thinking that's the
[00:40:47] Jess: weirdest visual in my head right now. Just, well, just like, just like LinkedIn ads, like strutting their stuff.
[00:40:53] Josh: Damn. She's hot.
[00:40:54] Jess: Yeah. That's a hot A
[00:40:58] Josh: So to your point, we're [00:41:00] still a couple weeks out from mm-hmm. From this. We don't know. Like I think the team has done an excellent job, like getting through the process of the repositioning and the, the pivot.
[00:41:08] But we're still yet to see sort of real market Yeah. Like, um, resolution with it. How will you know as a marketing leader if your team delivered what they needed to deliver and this was successful?
[00:41:19] Jess: Yeah, let's talk goals.
[00:41:21] Josh: Yeah,
[00:41:21] Jess: so something really interesting before we started this, so like up through like June, July, we were tracking goals based on what we wanted to do, like revenue wise for the end of the year.
[00:41:33] Josh: Yep.
[00:41:34] Jess: When this started, we had to completely rethink
[00:41:37] Josh: our
[00:41:38] Jess: goals. Not because we didn't think we couldn't hit that number anymore, but because what was in front of us was something very different. Yep. And it, the, the real question we needed to answer was, is this pivot. The right direction for the company.
[00:41:52] Yeah. And my job as marketing leader was to figure out what are the leading indicators, what are the goals, what are the things I'm going to track? [00:42:00] Mm-hmm. In marketing that tells me it was or wasn't. Yeah. And so I had three. Cool. The first one was, uh, homepage to demo conversion rate.
[00:42:12] Josh: Mm, yep.
[00:42:13] Jess: So, because the homepage was undergoing such an enormous makeover, I wanted to make sure that, like what we did there.
[00:42:21] Increase the likelihood that someone was going to be interested and book a demo. Yep. So I took a benchmark in July of what that percentage was. Uh, it was 3.5%.
[00:42:32] Josh: Okay.
[00:42:32] Jess: Not horrible.
[00:42:33] Josh: Yeah.
[00:42:33] Jess: Also not great. You probably want like a six. Six, seven, 6% Got it in the gear. Got them you. But for real, you do want like six or 7% ish.
[00:42:48] Josh: Love it.
[00:42:48] Jess: Of people coming to the homepage, like going and converting. Yeah. So that. Was room for improvement.
[00:42:54] Josh: Yep.
[00:42:54] Jess: There were two more. Second goal was I wanted to make sure that demos booked by ICP [00:43:00] personas increased. Mm. And I wanted it to increase by a pretty healthy amount, like 50%.
[00:43:04] Josh: Yep. Wow.
[00:43:05] Jess: So, took a baseline of that as well.
[00:43:08] And the third goal was that I wanted to see demos booked by. Uh, people with sales in their title. Mm. So sales use cases essentially was like my assumption there. Yeah. Decreased by 50%. Mm. So I want this, this positioning has to do a lot for us. It has to tell people we are for marketers and not sales. Yeah.
[00:43:28] And it has to be so enticing that people are much more likely to book a demo upon seeing what we're telling them on the homepage.
[00:43:35] Josh: And I thought as a, as a founder and a CEO, what was incredible about watching you and your team go through this process is you have these goals. They're the goals that we wanna measure, like in a couple weeks when we start to like actually go to market.
[00:43:49] But because you did things like. Turning the survey into content because you started doing events and talking about us differently because we did some minor tweaks to H ones or Subheaders, right? [00:44:00] Yeah. You were actually able to allow us to start to see the change before it actually happened. Yes. I, I don't think we have the numbers ready, but I know that we are already seeing better.
[00:44:11] Even before we've launched, then those baseline numbers.
[00:44:13] Jess: Absolutely. Yeah. And just in the way that we're talking about ourselves, you're right, we did do kind of a, a 1.5 version of the website that was really just the H one and the subhead. Yeah. Before we went to Inbound and before we went to drive, because we knew there was gonna be some extra traffic coming to the site, and we wanted the benefit of that story already being told in some way.
[00:44:32] Yeah. In the best way we knew how to tell it.
[00:44:34] Josh: Yeah.
[00:44:35] Jess: So, uh, yeah, it, it was incredible. It felt almost like. I don't wanna say overnight, but it was very quickly. Yeah. After we made this decision and we just kind of started carrying ourselves and speaking about ourselves a little differently. Yeah. That we started seeing this shift.
[00:44:49] Josh: Yeah, I agree. I think maybe moving to takeaways, like I've got one or two. Yeah, and I'm sure you have some as well. Um, one is I think. Uh, there's a right and a wrong way to go through a pivot. Um, and if you do it the [00:45:00] the right way and you're clear with your team and you give them a lot of ownership, there was actually a lot of like camaraderie around, like, we're in this together.
[00:45:07] Yes, everyone's pressing the gas at the same time. And, and I look back at the last quarter and I'm like, Ooh, that was life's work kind of stuff. Like, that's work I'm proud of and like we will talk about for a long time. Um, I do think it would like. I was telling Nick the other day, I think there is a, there was a start date and a soon to be end date of when we all decided we're gonna find product market fit.
[00:45:27] Yeah. And that's just like so cool to see. I think the other final takeaway for me is, um, being able to differentiate. Um, shiny object syndrome. Yeah. Of like, we're changing just because I went to dinner and met somebody versus we're changing because there's real writing on the wall. Yeah. That like, if we don't make this, this change we're, we're not going to succeed.
[00:45:48] Yeah. And also just putting ego aside and realizing like when, when you need to make those changes, when you need to hand away your Legos to other members of your team when you need to remove yourself from a process and hiring really great people that allow [00:46:00] you to do that.
[00:46:00] Jess: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think one of the big takeaways for me was how do you keep the plates you already have spinning, spinning while you now have this other huge project that kind of is like the fate of the company.
[00:46:14] Yeah. Um, that was, uh, there were, I had to bring on a couple extra vendors to help me get content written.
[00:46:22] Josh: Yep.
[00:46:22] Jess: So that those things could keep going. Um, there were a couple things I wasn't willing to give away. I think that was kind of a nice lesson too, like, yeah. There are certain things I really enjoy doing.
[00:46:31] Uh, writing the newsletter based on this podcast, by the way, is like one of my favorite things to write. And it, it comes from me. It has my name on it. Like I don't ever wanna not write that. So that wasn't something I was willing to give away. But there were other things like the, the clip titles. Yeah, the um, the show notes.
[00:46:48] Yeah. Like those things I was able to bring on a contractor to help us with. Yeah. And thank goodness I did because it allowed it to keep going when we had this other huge thing that had to get done and
[00:46:57] Josh: I needed to support you in reducing that scope. [00:47:00] Right? Yeah. Whether it was, hey, the way that we measure goals are changing, like we don't care about those goals anymore.
[00:47:04] We care about these ones. Yes. Or even silly things like a lot of my content, you help author for me and for a quarter here, we haven't done a lot of video content 'cause it's a lot of work on you. Yeah. We've done a lot of textuals. Stuff. Just little things that can help support your marketing leaders to go take on these big projects you're putting in front of them.
[00:47:19] That was
[00:47:19] Jess: a great example. That was one we were doing video and written, uh, texts for every single one of your posts. Yeah. Yeah. And something that allowed me to keep that going at a smaller scope was just remove video. Yeah. And so I was still able to give you every other week some, uh, some great content to post on LinkedIn, but uh, it wasn't such a huge like task every, every time to get it done.
[00:47:42] So yeah. Great point. I do have one final question though, like is ad audiences. Actually the thing we wanna be known for are, are you sure about that?
[00:47:51] Josh: I don't know. Let's table that for now. But this meeting was still great.
[00:47:54] Jess: It was good.
[00:47:55] Josh: Yeah. This meeting could have been a podcast.
[00:47:57] Jess: It could have.
[00:47:57] Josh: It was. It was,
[00:47:59] Jess: this [00:48:00] meeting could have been a podcast as a vector.
[00:48:01] Production Vector lets you build ad audiences from real people that visit your site, click your ads and research your competitors. Imagine seeing exactly who will see your ads by name before you spend a dime. It's a great time to be alive. Marketers, go give it a whirl@vector.co. See you next time.