[00:00:00] Jess: Hey, Josh.
[00:00:00] Josh: Hey Jess. What's on the agenda today?
[00:00:02] Jess: So we are a contact based marketing platform.
[00:00:04] Josh: That's true.
[00:00:05] Jess: And I want to own the phrase contact based marketing in S-E-O-G-E-O. Yay. YIO. Whatever the hell. I just made that last one up. But I need an agency to do it.
[00:00:15] Josh: That sounds expensive and sounds like it's gonna take a long time.
[00:00:18] Can you tell me more?
[00:00:24] Was it your first week or two you came into me and you're like, I wanna hire an agency.
[00:00:30] Jess: Yeah. It was really early on.
[00:00:31] Josh: Did you know when I, when I hired you that you wanted to do that right away?
[00:00:35] Jess: Oh yeah.
[00:00:37] Josh: Like, like, I'm gonna spend a lot of money.
[00:00:39] Jess: These people don't even know.
[00:00:40] Josh: What was it about what we were building?
[00:00:42] Were you like, I need an agency for this?
[00:00:44] Jess: So part of it is I knew we were building a category, right? Yeah. Like we have to sell the category of contact based marketing just as much as we do, like our own name and our own product.
[00:00:55] Josh: Yes. And.
[00:00:57] Jess: I also knew, you know, I'd used this [00:01:00] agency that I wanted to bring on before.
[00:01:01] Yep. Um, I shadow Acue. Yes. We love them. Love Acue. Yeah. By the way, E-R-C-U-L-E, it's a little difficult to, a little
[00:01:10] Josh: thingy over the EI think. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:01:12] Jess: A little ae sometimes. Um, but I knew I wanted to bring them on because. I knew they were gonna help. I worked with them before and I knew they were gonna help us really own that phrase.
[00:01:24] Yeah. Um, and SEO is changing, like they're, you know, 10 years ago, even five years ago, you could build pretty, um, simple, like 1 0 1 content Yeah. And rank for it. Yeah. And, and get a ton of leads from it, right? Yeah. Like a ton of people coming in. Just kind of like figuring out like, what is this thing that you're talking about?
[00:01:45] Yeah. And can't really do that anymore. Google has made so many updates. Um, and, you know, the, the helpful content update is a really big one where it actually has to give some value. Yeah. Has to feel [00:02:00] human. Um, it has to have been shared a lot. Mm-hmm. Like a very shareable piece of content is really important.
[00:02:06] And I'd worked with them before and I knew that they could do that for us,
[00:02:09] Josh: but I thought you could just like put a bunch of like, keywords in a blog that was like AI generated and just like. Get SEO. Isn't that how that works?
[00:02:15] Jess: You would think that. CEO.
[00:02:18] Josh: Classic. Classic. CEOI mean our, like the whole concept of this show is like dropping into our one-on-ones.
[00:02:23] Yes. Right. And if we're being super honest, when you brought that to me, I was like, I thought that was your job.
[00:02:26] Jess: Yeah. Right. Like
[00:02:27] Josh: why, why, why did we need to do that? Um, and we'll talk about this probably at some other point, but I had also heard like. SEO's dying. You just need like a chat GBT license. You can just generate stuff.
[00:02:38] Yeah. And so I remember having to sit down with you and being like, is this actually going to do what we need? Do you, has your opinion changed on bringing in agencies, like as the SEO landscape has changed or did you know like, no, this is still something we really need to do?
[00:02:53] Jess: I knew it was something we really needed to do for that reason.
[00:02:56] Mm-hmm. So SEO has changed. And now we have the [00:03:00] advent of generative ai. Yeah. And there is so much, uh, unknown, um, and kind of black boxiness to that whole thing. Like, how do you get discovered? How do you, how do you get chat GPT or Claude or any of the LLMs to say things about you you want them to say?
[00:03:17] Yeah. Like how do you kind of like, um, dictate the conversation?
[00:03:19] Josh: Yep.
[00:03:21] Jess: And, um, part of that is really good. SEO content. Mm-hmm. Um, because a lot of that trains those LLMs, that's where they pull from. But there's a lot of other thinking behind that too. Right. It's not just a good piece of content. And I knew that air.
[00:03:36] They have kind of become, for me that resource of, you know, how do you actually become an authority in the large language models?
[00:03:44] Josh: That was the thing for all the other marketing leaders out there that are trying to convince a founder or CEO to like get an agency. That was the thing for me that was like, oh, okay, because.
[00:03:54] As a founder, I attend trade shows and all these things, right? Everyone's, oh, you need to use Chachi, bt like, fire half your team. You can [00:04:00] just like write these things yourself. When you brought to me sort of the research that they had done or basically saying like, yeah, you can go to SEMrush or SEM, rush, whatever you call it, and like get.
[00:04:12] The keyword research. I was like, okay, I've seen that we can do that for cheap. But they were helping us figure out like, Hey, if you wanna rank for contact based marketing, you can do that pretty easily. But there's not a lot of search volume there. So I feel like the thing you taught me that was really valuable about hiring an agency was all of this sort of.
[00:04:29] Strategic work. Yeah. It's not just like, oh, come up, like just generate 10 blogs about contact based marketing. There's actual strategy that has to go into like what, how you're getting ranked for certain terms.
[00:04:41] Jess: Yes. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And, and it's pretty collaborative too. So I think part of the process for us was, you know, they deliver all of that data.
[00:04:49] Josh: Yeah.
[00:04:50] Jess: That was like, Hey, these are kind of the terms that are relevant for you. Here's the volume, here's the competition.
[00:04:55] Josh: Yeah.
[00:04:55] Jess: But for us, like we are really the only ones as you [00:05:00] know, the on the leadership team that know which of those are most relevant for us. Right. And which of those like help build our point of view and say the things to the market that we wanna say.
[00:05:10] Yeah. So. Part of that process was going in and giving each thing like a relevant score.
[00:05:15] Josh: Yeah. And
[00:05:15] Jess: they have this really fancy little tool where like you put all that information in and it does some math on the backend and it shows like lists out for you. Like these are the, these are the campaigns, these are the kind of the things you really need to focus on.
[00:05:27] And that's where we go to work. So then it's like, okay, now we need to build content around these. Right? Yeah. And, and then kind of see what happens.
[00:05:35] Josh: It was, what was interesting is like. We're, I don't know, a month or two into this process and it's working. Yeah. Right. Like, I, I just put a, a message in Slack the other day to the team where it's like, if you go search contact based marketing, there's like, you know, four different parts of the page that we can own.
[00:05:49] It's like the knowledge graph, the related, the videos, and we're basically owning all of them. Yeah. Um, my question. Acue commercial over. Yeah. [00:06:00] Shout out. Love you guys. Uh, but going back to like the, the, your strategy of bringing it in, like were you scared shitless as like your first move as a marketing leader to be like, I need to go ask for a bunch of budget to do this thing.
[00:06:11] Jess: Totally, yeah. Yeah. Um, especially 'cause I have, so this is the fourth time I've worked with them
[00:06:16] Josh: Yeah.
[00:06:17] Jess: With Aql and. Every time there has been pushback. And I, I kn I just know now that that happens. Yeah. And I think it's just because, um,
[00:06:25] Josh: CEOs are assholes. Were the worst.
[00:06:28] Jess: Well, that and No, I'm
[00:06:30] Josh: just kidding.
[00:06:30] Uhhuh Uhhuh writing that down,
[00:06:32] Jess: remembering that at your performance Uhhuh, um. No, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that it is so black boxy and it's hard to know, like, okay, if I, if I pay the money and I bring these guys on Yeah. Like, one, what are you gonna do? Yeah. Like, I think that's kind of a weird thing too.
[00:06:49] Yeah. Like, isn't that your job? Mm-hmm. Um, and, and I always kind of go back to the idea that like, my job is to like orchestrate and scale. Yes. Yes. And so that's a big piece of it. Mm-hmm. You [00:07:00] bring on an agency when you. When you need the help to be able to scale, right? Yeah. You can't do everything as a single marketer.
[00:07:07] Josh: Yes.
[00:07:08] Jess: Your whole time, right? Yep. Or else you will burnout or the things that need to get done will not get done. But
[00:07:12] Josh: most CEOs don't know that, right? Correct. Like when, especially maybe CEOs isn't the right term founders. Yeah. Especially first, first time founders. Right. It's like I hired a marketer. Yes, they're gonna market.
[00:07:23] Yeah, right. Like marketing's just one job. Right. And it, you know, I luckily I was at Drift, which was like a classic marketing story. Yeah. And so like I learned a lot of like, no, marketing's actually a very complicated function. But I imagine a lot of marketers that have that report to CEOs and founders that haven't had that experience probably get a lot of pushback of like, wait, why do I need to go hire someone like I'm paying you to market.
[00:07:44] And the reality is, is like there's like 19 different departments within marketing that you have to go orchestrate.
[00:07:49] Jess: That's one plate. I'm gonna start spinning Yes. Over here, right? Yeah. And then while they're doing that, I'm gonna go over here and start another plate spinning. Yes. And then I'm gonna go over here and start another one, right?
[00:07:57] Yes. I think that is the, that is the job [00:08:00] of a marketing lead. Yeah. Is to figure out ways, whether it's themselves.
[00:08:04] Josh: Mm,
[00:08:05] Jess: an agency, a contractor hire someone. Mm-hmm. And this just happened to be the best job for an agency? Yes. Because they excel at this. Yes.
[00:08:14] Josh: And for all the marketers out there, like clip the next 30 seconds of content and share it with your boss, which is like.
[00:08:20] Even though you outsourced it, quote unquote outsourced it, I still see you spending a ton of work doing that orchestration. Yes. Right. Managing them, pushing them in the right direction, sharing the internal context of where we're going as a company. So it's not like you're just like, oh, here's a bunch of money, like go do a job.
[00:08:36] I'm gonna go on vacation. Like you're still actively spending that plate.
[00:08:39] Jess: Absolutely. Yeah. We have weekly meetings. I am, they're doing reporting. I'm making sure it's working. Yeah. And the other thing is they don't know our brand and our strategy like we do. Yeah. And so they'll come to us and have an idea that could be good for another company.
[00:08:55] Yeah. But I'm like, you know what? We're not gonna, we're not gonna go the route of talking about. [00:09:00] Contact based marketing in the context of how do you give context to sales. Right. Because our point of view is all of this data should be with marketers. Yes. And they don't have that context. And I do. Right?
[00:09:10] Yes. So you're still, you are guiding a lot.
[00:09:13] Josh: When, when you and I first started talking, I came to you with like the classic like crazy founder, like, we're gonna build a category. When you looked at what Vector did in particular. Question one, did it make sense that we were building a category? And do you think every marketer and every founder should be trying to figure out, like, how do we build a term and a category around what we do?
[00:09:35] Jess: That's a really good question. I don't think everything is a category. Mm-hmm. Um. I think we make sense as an, as a new category. And actually it's funny because us as a category, we were really lucky there was a a, a similar category built before us. Mm-hmm. That's account based marketing.
[00:09:51] Josh: Yep.
[00:09:51] Jess: And we kind of had that term that all marketers are very familiar with.
[00:09:55] Yeah. To kind of just tweak with one word. Yes. And it makes all the [00:10:00] sense in the world to someone who hears it as a marketer. Right? Yes. And so I think it's almost like a category, but. It's also the positioning of it Yes. Was really, really smart. Yes. Um, and so it made a lot of sense to me when we first started talking like, oh, oh yeah, I instantly understood this is a category they are piggybacking off of a very well known thing in marketing.
[00:10:20] Um, and it, it totally makes sense. There are things out there that aren't a wholly new category. Yeah. So example, for example, I was at a company called Lasso.
[00:10:29] Josh: Yep.
[00:10:29] Jess: And they were almost like a Salesforce.
[00:10:32] Josh: Yep.
[00:10:33] Jess: For. A pr, an event production company. That's great. Yeah. Right. They weren't building a category.
[00:10:38] Josh: Yeah.
[00:10:38] Jess: There was a category already built. Okay. They found an industry that was underserved.
[00:10:44] Josh: Mm. Right. That, that's fair. And
[00:10:45] Jess: so that is a very different approach. Yes.
[00:10:47] Josh: Because I feel like one of the things that, like on LinkedIn, I'm seeing all the time right now is people invent categories for things that like we've been doing already.
[00:10:55] Yeah. There was one the other day, it was like, uh. Inbound LED outbound or something. [00:11:00] It was like this concept of like someone comes into your website and then you outbound them and I'm like, that's fucking marketing. Yeah. Like that's the thing we've been doing. Yeah. Right. Someone comes to the website and then we try to go sell them.
[00:11:10] Right. I think that's for like founders, like that's the question that needs to be asked is like. Are we actually inventing something new or are we just gonna annoy people? Yeah. By like just putting a term on something that already exists. Yeah. And so I think for CBM or contact based marketing, to your point, it made sense because it was an actual iteration on top of A BM.
[00:11:30] Yes. Right. It was a problem people experienced and it was a technology. That came and like supported it. Yes. So I think that's the, the thing people should look at is like, is there actually a category that needs to be created here?
[00:11:40] Jess: Yes, exactly. I think the way that you can know, like, 'cause you can try that, right?
[00:11:45] Like you can go out and be like, okay, I'm gonna create this thing called inbound led outbound.
[00:11:49] Josh: Yeah.
[00:11:49] Jess: And I'm gonna build the content around that. Maybe I bring in an agency to help me do that.
[00:11:55] Josh: Yep.
[00:11:55] Jess: And I'm going to, uh, I'm gonna see if inbound led [00:12:00] outbound is like a place that we can play.
[00:12:01] Josh: Yeah.
[00:12:02] Jess: And you should take a look back over a couple of months and like if that search volume is not growing
[00:12:07] Josh: Yeah.
[00:12:08] Jess: That should be a really clear signal. Right. And we're seeing that with contact based marketing. Yeah. The volume is growing. Yes. So there's something there. There are competitors in our space. Yes. That's a really great sense. Yes. Right.
[00:12:18] Josh: Is that something that a, a marketer or a founder should do before they get an agency?
[00:12:25] Like is there something that they should be looking at to say like. Is there search volume here? Do we believe in the category or do you invest in the agency to help you figure that out?
[00:12:34] Jess: Mm, I think. The way you did it was right. You like, of
[00:12:39] Josh: course it was.
[00:12:40] Jess: I mean,
[00:12:44] I can't even, I like had a joke and I was like, not even gonna, well
[00:12:51] Josh: we can, it's fine. Jokes.
[00:12:55] Jess: No, it wasn't as good as your joke. That was the thing.
[00:12:58] Josh: Oh, I fucked yours up is what you shoulda.[00:13:00]
[00:13:02] Jess: No, I think you can't bring on marketing, let alone an agency until you have that figured out. Ah, is my thought. Right? Yeah. Maybe that's a hot take, but I think, you know, as a founder you really have to understand like, is there even product market fit here before I bring on marketing or that we're feeling market pull before I bring on marketing?
[00:13:25] I don't
[00:13:26] Josh: think most. Founders or CEOs are bringing in marketing because they've done that like deep soul searching, right? They're bringing in marketing. So it's like, oh, I need to market my board's telling me we need to grow, right? Yeah. I need to feed the sales reps with more pipeline. And I think that is like the earliest indication that shit's about to go really bad for that company or that the CEO and the market are gonna have a really rough relationship if they don't understand that piece.
[00:13:53] Jess: Totally.
[00:13:53] Josh: Do we have that?
[00:13:55] Jess: I think we're amazing. Duh.
[00:13:58] Josh: We did figure that piece out [00:14:00] though. Yeah. Like when, when you and I first met, it was, uh, like I was in search of you, uh, a mutual friend of ours was like, you need to go talk to Jess. But it was definitely through the lens of like, I think we've got something interesting here.
[00:14:12] I believe in marketing. Yeah. And I think it's allowed us to have such a better relationship around like how we go to market. 'cause it's not just like, Jess, where's the pipeline? I need more demos. Yeah. Right. We understand it's deeper.
[00:14:22] Jess: Yes. 100%.
[00:14:24] Josh: I like that. Well, yeah.
[00:14:25] Jess: I think we've reached the part of the show.
[00:14:27] Yeah. Where we stare into the camera. Oh. And give positive affirmations to marketers. I love it. I love it. Dear marketer, your CTAs don't just drive clicks. They make mice and track pads. Feel privileged to be part of the experience.
[00:14:42] Josh: Dear marketer, when you build brand loyalty, it gets passed down generations.
[00:14:47] Have you worked with bad agencies?
[00:14:49] Jess: I have worked with bad agencies.
[00:14:51] Josh: What is, like, what, like Air Kill's been great for us. Yeah. So I only, like, I've never worked with agencies until you brought in air kill and I've had a good experience. Yeah. So I don't know what bad looks like.
[00:14:59] Jess: Yeah.
[00:14:59] Josh: [00:15:00] How do you know you've got a bad one?
[00:15:03] Jess: Man? Uh, it's easy. Yeah. Like, you, you feel it very quickly. Mm-hmm. And we say agency as kind of a broad term, but there are million kinds of agencies. Yeah. Um. Que happens to be like content systems, organic content growth.
[00:15:17] Josh: Yep.
[00:15:18] Jess: Um, one of the worst agencies I ever worked with was, uh, a small creative shop.
[00:15:24] Josh: Yeah.
[00:15:25] Jess: And I think the telltale like red flag is you do not feel like you're being heard. Hmm. You keep telling them over and over, yeah. This is what our brand is about. I'm not feeling that in this creative.
[00:15:39] Josh: Yep.
[00:15:39] Jess: Or even if it was, you know, an icu, I'm not feeling that like you're hearing me when I say,
[00:15:45] Josh: yeah,
[00:15:45] Jess: that's not our point of view.
[00:15:47] Josh: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:47] Jess: So that's kind of the first thing is like there, you don't feel heard and it reflects in the work.
[00:15:51] Josh: Yep.
[00:15:52] Jess: And second is this same agency kind of refused to change even after hearing that. Like, it was like, no, no. You know, there's that [00:16:00] Seinfeld episode about the creative genius. Yes. Right? Yes. Yes. It feels like that, where you're like,
[00:16:04] Josh: ugh.
[00:16:04] Jess: No, we are the creative genius. And even though you're the client, you don't tell us what to do, we tell you.
[00:16:10] Josh: Yeah. Right.
[00:16:11] Jess: And so it just felt like this really toxic, they always wanted to be the ones to bring the ideas. Yeah. Even if they weren't right or good. Yeah. Um, it was really hard to deal with. We ended up having to let them go because they just, we just were never getting through to them.
[00:16:26] Josh: And that surprises me, especially marketer to marketer. Yeah. I get it. Like as a. Founder, like, I don't know, marketing. Right? So like, I need to hire experts that can sort of guide me. I'm just like, no, you shouldn't say it this way. Or it shouldn't look that way. But when it's a marketer that kind of knows her shit.
[00:16:41] Yeah. And another marketer being like, no, you're wrong. Like that just that boggles my mind.
[00:16:45] Jess: And don't get me wrong, there's room for like healthy pushback.
[00:16:48] Josh: Yeah.
[00:16:48] Jess: Sometimes marketers are scared to be really bold. Yeah.
[00:16:51] Josh: And
[00:16:52] Jess: it's, it should be the agency's job to be like. Trust me. Yeah. Like, please, let's try this once.
[00:16:56] Right? Yeah. But there's only so far you can go if a, if a [00:17:00] client is telling you like, no, yeah, this is not the route we want to go.
[00:17:04] Josh: Do you think with the advent of AI and all this sort of stuff, are we gonna see more freelancers and copywriters and folks that say, yeah, I'll ghost write for you, or I'll get you ranking for this term, and it's just actually.
[00:17:22] A bunch of AI that they're throwing in. And it's not the sort of a stuff that we're getting from acu.
[00:17:28] Jess: It's already happening. Mm-hmm. Um, I get stuff in my inbox all the time of like, Hey, let me, let me write this thing for you. Right. And here's an article I even, I drafted and you open it up and like, I can count the word delve 12 times.
[00:17:39] Like, I know I wrote this. That's her favorite word. Yep.
[00:17:43] Josh: Yep.
[00:17:43] Jess: Um, so yeah, I think that there will be some of that. I, here's the thing, it's kind of like Darwinism, right? Yeah. Yeah. The good stuff is going to survive. Yeah. Rise to the top. Get shared.
[00:17:55] Josh: Yep.
[00:17:55] Jess: Um, the AI DRL is going to [00:18:00] go extinct. Yes. Um, it's never gonna reach page one,
[00:18:02] Josh: but can we go on the record really quickly that yes.
[00:18:04] An M dash doesn't mean you're ai Never. I love the M Dash.
[00:18:07] Jess: It's my favorite.
[00:18:09] Josh: I hate all these posts. Like if you use the m Dasher ai, I know. I
[00:18:12] Jess: immediately don't trust you if you say that.
[00:18:14] Josh: Yeah, yeah. I know. I write all my content or Jess writes it for me.
[00:18:18] Jess: Uh, we'll get to that a later episode. Another
[00:18:20] Josh: episode.
[00:18:21] I don't write my own content, but
[00:18:24] Jess: say it at, say it. String the words together for you and it's wonderful. Love that. Love that. So let's actually get into like what we're doing with air, because this show is all about like, we're giving all this stuff away. We're gonna talk about the things we're doing.
[00:18:39] Yeah. I think that's what ex excites me about this show is like. You get to drop into these one-on-ones, you get to hear how we're actually running marketing at Factor. Yeah. So, you know, we, we talked through some of the strategy stuff where they have given us all of the, the volume and the best keywords and kind of the, the things that our competitors are talking about.
[00:18:57] Josh: Yep.
[00:18:58] Jess: And we gave them kind of a [00:19:00] relevance score. And so now we know from top to bottom, like, where do we wanna start? Uh, what, what keywords do we wanna go after? Um, some of the really interesting things we're doing is, you know, obviously we're creating. Great articles and guides around that. Yeah, so. One thing we just wrote was, uh, what is contact based marketing?
[00:19:17] Josh: Yep.
[00:19:18] Jess: Um, relatively low volume.
[00:19:20] Josh: Yep.
[00:19:20] Jess: Right now. Mm-hmm. About 40 or 50 searches a month.
[00:19:23] Josh: Yep.
[00:19:23] Jess: Uh, but growing, yes, very quickly. And actually after only about two weeks, we saw that pop up on page one. Mm-hmm. We saw it informing the perplexity answer and some of the LLM answers, which is
[00:19:37] Josh: why I came, I was outta office when you shared this with the team.
[00:19:41] And so I didn't get to see it, but then I went on perplexing and I was like, what is Jess talking about? And if you ask it like anything in this category, like it references us as like the main thing. It's sourcing its information from. Yeah. And this was super quick. Is this because it's as of right now, a not as competitive keyword.
[00:19:57] Jess: Exactly. Mm-hmm. And so that's why we jumped on it so [00:20:00] quickly because we want to own it. Yeah. We don't want someone else in this space to come in and take that away from us.
[00:20:04] Josh: Yeah.
[00:20:04] Jess: Now we're not done.
[00:20:05] Josh: Yeah. We
[00:20:05] Jess: have to continue that work because. Someone could come in and do that, right? Yes. Um, don't try it.
[00:20:11] It's ours.
[00:20:12] Josh: That's why I don't like this podcast 'cause our competitors are probably watching it.
[00:20:16] Jess: It's okay.
[00:20:18] Josh: We already ranked Don't even try. That's right. Yeah. Don't even try.
[00:20:20] Jess: Um, so we have more to do around that, right? Yeah. And, and so that's some of the work we're doing with them to continue to own that Yeah.
[00:20:26] And really claim that land. Yes. In SEO and in uh, GEO, some of the other work in E-I-E-I-O and eii o.
[00:20:35] Josh: Wait, what is GGEO?
[00:20:36] Jess: Yes. What is that? Generative engine optimization. Oh, Jesus.
[00:20:40] Josh: So now we have to write content, not only for humans, but search engines and now ai.
[00:20:43] Jess: Exactly. Sick. Yeah. So fun. Cool.
[00:20:48] Josh: Love that.
[00:20:49] Jess: Thanks for the college degree, mom and dad. Yeah,
[00:20:51] Josh: exactly. I'm writing for a bot now. Love that. Um, so you have to keep going is what you're saying. Have to keep going. Yeah. A lot more
[00:20:57] Jess: work to do there. Yeah. Uh, but we're seeing, we're [00:21:00] seeing gains from it already. Yeah. Which is really exciting. Some of the other work we're doing is in the programmatic SEO space.
[00:21:06] Yeah. And this was not something I knew anything about until they brought, uh, it to us. Yeah. And I was really excited about this. So this idea is, let's say you have some search terms that the content around them could have very similar formats and frameworks. Mm. Yep. So one play we're running right now is like a competitive, like a versus Yep.
[00:21:26] Or an alternatives play, right? Yes. And what this allows you to do is, uh, very quickly get about, you know, 20 or so pages up
[00:21:35] Josh: mm-hmm.
[00:21:36] Jess: That you can build, you know, you can scale the content creation really quickly because the frameworks are similar, right? Yes. You kind of have a, almost a blog post template.
[00:21:45] Josh: Yep.
[00:21:45] Jess: And you're just filling in the information for the, you know, the competitor you're talking about.
[00:21:49] Josh: Yep.
[00:21:50] Jess: You get all 20 of those pages up.
[00:21:52] Josh: Yep.
[00:21:52] Jess: Quickly.
[00:21:53] Josh: Yep.
[00:21:54] Jess: You start to see like, oh, these three are really starting to take off. Mm-hmm. We're gonna blow those ones out. [00:22:00]
[00:22:00] Josh: And to clarify, 'cause you showed me this the other day, this isn't a vector versus vector versus Right.
[00:22:06] It's other tools, how they compare against each other. Exactly. And then you've got this really sneaky thing at the bottom there. It's
[00:22:11] Jess: like. Do you need account based marketing? Yeah. Or something else. It's like,
[00:22:14] Josh: these both kind of suck actually. Yeah. You should do this one instead. You should try this other thing.
[00:22:18] That's smart. Right.
[00:22:18] Jess: And so it's, it's this really nice way, like as marketers, we're all about testing. We love to test Yeah. Testing. SEO has historically been really hard. Yeah. And, and even GEO, like we don't even know what GEO testing looks like yet.
[00:22:30] Josh: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:22:31] Jess: And so, uh, this is a really exciting way to be able to do that.
[00:22:34] Yeah. Is this programmatic, SEO is like, get as many of very similar articles up at once Yep. As you can. See what performs and really dive into those.
[00:22:44] Josh: And then once we have, so like we're doing like 20 ish or something, once we start to see, oh, these three are the ones that are getting the most traffic. Yep.
[00:22:52] What are you gonna go do to those pages? So
[00:22:55] Jess: we're gonna double down on those. We're gonna blow them out, right? Okay. We're gonna start grabbing like screenshots of [00:23:00] things. We're gonna drop video and then we're gonna make them more multimodal experience. That's
[00:23:03] Josh: cool.
[00:23:04] Jess: And we're gonna work on distribution.
[00:23:05] Yeah. So obviously if people are searching for that.
[00:23:08] Josh: Yeah.
[00:23:08] Jess: People on LinkedIn probably have similar questions. So we're gonna take that content, we're gonna turn it into social, we're gonna turn it into email. Yeah. So we're gonna just get that information out as many ways as possible. Yeah. But we're gonna let the search.
[00:23:20] Uh, volume. Tell us, yeah. Which ones are the ones we wanna double down on? That's
[00:23:24] Josh: smart. I remember. Um, or like, what was interesting about this is I think like programmatic, SEO is something that. It's one of those terms I hear about Right. As like a founder, oh, you have to go do this thing. Mm-hmm. And before you were here, I didn't experiment with it.
[00:23:39] I'm not actually sure if you've seen it on our website, but we have like a, like a term section Yeah. Of a bunch of marketing terms. And that particular part of programmatic SEO like hasn't worked out super well for us because like the idea that I had as a dumb CEO is like one that's been done many, many times, which is like just a terms dictionary.
[00:23:57] Yeah. The one thing we did do that's pretty cool if you go to those pages is there's like [00:24:00] two definitions. There's like the yes. Nerdy definition. And then like the dumbed down definition, which by the way, I didn't do, but when I was first building that out, I wanted it to be like the mansplained version versus like the real definition.
[00:24:13] And
[00:24:13] Jess: we get canceled immediately. Exactly.
[00:24:16] Josh: Men are the worst. Uh, myself included. Um, but, but I think that's a big part of it, which is, um, like. The CEO is gonna come and be like, oh, we need to do programmatic SEO. Right? I heard about this in a trade show. Um, the fucking trade shows, I think we're gonna talk about that later too.
[00:24:33] We're that's an episode too. Um, so I think this is where CEOs need to hear ideas, but then let the adults in the room actually go do it. Because like I heard about programmatic, SEO. I did it in a really shitty way versus what you're doing is actually going to work.
[00:24:49] Jess: One last thing I wanted to talk about that we're doing with them that really excites me.
[00:24:53] Yeah. Is we, this isn't even content production, this is like, uh, GEO [00:25:00] check-in. Yeah. So what we have right now is documented what all of the LLMs are saying about us. We have very specific set of questions that we ask. Oh. So like what is Vector?
[00:25:10] Josh: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:10] Jess: What is contact based marketing? Um, what does Vector do?
[00:25:14] Josh: Yep.
[00:25:14] Jess: What is Vector's pricing like, right? Mm-hmm. Like just things that people would probably go to an LLM to ask. Yeah, yeah. About us and we record all the responses. Ooh. And then in three months we're gonna do it again and see how it's changed. Right now chat, GBT thinks the vector is a manufacturing company in New Zealand.
[00:25:31] Oh,
[00:25:31] Josh: in New Zealand. Wrong one.
[00:25:35] Jess: So we have some work to do
[00:25:37] Josh: also. This is how you know the podcast are real. 'cause I didn't know that until this. Yeah, I do wanna
[00:25:41] Jess: tell you that. Cool, cool. I just waited until we were on live television. Can't
[00:25:46] Josh: fire you live,
[00:25:49] Jess: but we're gonna check it again.
[00:25:50] Josh: Yeah,
[00:25:50] Jess: right. And so those are the things that we have to keep tabs on.
[00:25:53] We need to know what they're saying about us so we can change what they're saying about us.
[00:25:56] Josh: What I love about that is founders are [00:26:00] coin operated and often dumb, uh, in these particular areas. That is one of those sort of like. Like, can you measure the direct results of that? No. But will a founder get so excited to go to the board and be like, look, if you type in vector into open ai, it doesn't think that we're an Australian manufacturing company or whatever.
[00:26:20] That's right. Like there's something about those like tangible, like, let me show the board type examples that I think, um, go really far. Yeah. So if you're a marketer trying to figure out like, how do I look good? The best way to do that is probably by making your boss look good, which are those sort of examples.
[00:26:35] Jess: Yes, 100%.
[00:26:37] Josh: Yeah.
[00:26:37] Jess: Yeah. I, I would love in three months to be able to hand you that spreadsheet with like actual real information. Yes. Is it exactly what we want it to say about us? No. But doesn't know who we are and what we do. Yes. Yes. Great. Start
[00:26:49] Josh: for the one, the whole, like Australian manufacturer. Do we need to change the company name?
[00:26:53] Like how do we
[00:26:54] Jess: No, don't do that. Oh,
[00:26:55] Josh: okay.
[00:26:56] Jess: We're too far in.
[00:26:58] Josh: We can take the sign down. Can we [00:27:00] take the sign down?
[00:27:02] Jess: Don't do that. You're spiraling. Stop it.
[00:27:04] Josh: Can we rank for Pacman instead? No. No. Damn. Not how that works, I guess.
[00:27:11] Jess: Well, that was a great meeting.
[00:27:12] Josh: Yeah, I love that.
[00:27:13] Jess: We should have recorded this.
[00:27:15] Josh: Yeah.
[00:27:15] This meeting could have been a podcast,
[00:27:17] Jess: This meeting could have been a podcast is a Vector Production. Vector is a contact based marketing tool that reveals your best buyers on and off your site, and lets you target them with plays tailored to their exact spot in the funnel. Our site de anonymization tool is free forever.
[00:27:34] Go give it a whirl at vector.co